Kathryn Bigelow’s unnerving nuclear disaster film A House of Dynamite is a true ensemble. There are primary characters, but no leads. The film is told in three parts, showing the reactions of government professionals working in the United States Strategic Command (STRATCOM), the White House, and, finally, on Air Force One. Bigelow’s wrenching drama requires all actors on screen to play high-caliber professionals under the stress of responding to an unknown enemy that has targeted the United States. It’s the kind of film where excessive emoting could derail any given scene.
Casting Director Susanne Scheel worked closely with Bigelow to find the right actors for each role. In doing so, they focused on actors whose personal gravity and life experiences would combine with their acting skillset to serve the characters and the enormous scenario the film presents. In our conversation, Scheel and I discuss the casting process and the unique steps they took to ensure the integrity of one of the most bracing films in recent years.
The Contending: A House of Dynamite is Kathryn Bigelow’s first feature film since Detroit in 2017. I assume getting the opportunity to work with her was a major draw.
Susanne Scheel: Kathryn was the most immediate draw. But you could meet a fabulous director and realize your process or your taste might be quite different, and it isn’t a good match. I wanted to work on this before talking to her, but after meeting with her, I wanted to work on it even more because of her process. There is such credibility to how she goes about casting. Once I was hired, I was handed this huge book of research on several people who had played each role in real life in former administrations. Here are their backgrounds, education, their disposition, and personality, all these facets of the people who filled these positions in the US government.
It was fascinating to dive into that. It really helped me guide actors in the audition process. Almost all of the auditions were in person, which was a real treat after COVID. It was important to guide the actors appropriately on what Kathryn was looking for. She was looking for an almost documentary level of accuracy and credibility. That means we are not doing a dramatic interpretation of this event. We are getting it as close to the real people as we possibly can. Some actors really thrived in that, and some did not. That process, more than anything, drew me to the film. When I read the script, I raced through it in under an hour because I was so riveted by it. Then I was like, “Oh my gosh, wait, I’ve got to go back and actually think about casting it.” (Laughs). I’ve got to think about how we’d approach and how we’d execute the casting.
The Contending: Were any of the actors in the film attached to the picture before you came aboard?
Susanne Scheel: No. In our very first conversation, I pitched Idris to her. Of course, she had already thought of him as well. I was happy that we landed on the same person. She had him very much in mind, and initially, he wasn’t available, but we couldn’t get him out of our minds. So, we went back and asked if there was any way we could get two weeks of his time in this window during shooting. Thankfully, we were able to work it out. The order of operations began with Idris, then we talked about Rebecca’s role, then Jared Harris, then Tracy Letts, and then we just went. We started with each of what we called the pillars of each set, and knowing they cross over and talk to each other. We started with those four I mentioned, and then Gabriel Basso, Greta Lee, Moses Ingram, and Anthony Ramos.
We put them each in their spots and said, Okay, now who sits next to them, and built it out that way. We had to make sure that at no point was it confusing. Costuming helped for those in uniform, but then there are plenty of people who are just in suits. We had to make sure they were distinct from each other so the audience didn’t get confused, because the film’s pace just doesn’t allow for it. We couldn’t afford even a moment of Who’s this again? Where are we again? We had to be very precise in that way.
The Contending: Idris has played an American president twice this year in two very different films. What made you and Kathryn think of him immediately?
Susanne Scheel: His gravitas. Everything he does, he’s so credible. He has such integrity, and we just thought, if we literally got to cast with no parameters since the character wasn’t based on a specific person, who would we want to be our president in this situation? If you’ve seen the film in the first two acts, you just hear him, and because he’s not on Zoom, like most of the other people, he’s just on the rotary phone, his box is blacked out, and you just see POTUS, and you hear his voice. My dream was to do no marketing. Idris is in the film, but then it’s a surprise for everyone when he appears.
Of course, that didn’t fly for many reasons, but there are some audience members who don’t read every article the way we do. I wanted them to have that moment. I was so happy that, after some of the screenings we’ve gone to, talking to the audience afterwards, some of them did get to experience that moment of the reveal in the third act when we go into the Oval Office for the first time, and you see it’s Idris. It was a nice surprise because he was doing an American accent that we’ve never heard him do before. Our great hope was that people would get to have that experience of, oh my gosh, it’s him. We felt like Idris would be the most fun for the audience, and he’s such a terrific actor.
The Contending: It must have been very gratifying to watch the result and think, We got the right guy.
Susanne Scheel: We did. I felt that way about many of our cast members. We had experts on set with Kathryn and (screenwriter) Noah Oppenheim. Our production designer, Jeremy Hindle, spent a ton of time with people who actually hold these jobs. The thing they said that was evident over and over again is how capable, intelligent, and calm these people are, which gave them comfort knowing that the people in the real moment would be so prepared. In that way, the President is the least prepared.
STRATCOM runs like 400 drills a year for this type of thing. The White House Situation Room runs drills all the time. But the President does not. One former Chief of Staff whom Noah interviewed was asked, “How many times does the president practice for this?” The response was none, zero. There’s no time. As Idris says in the film, you practice for the things that are more likely to happen.
The Contending: Most people probably know Rebecca Ferguson for the Mission Impossible films, but she is an excellent, well-rounded actress. It was great seeing her as the Captain embedded in a nuclear response unit.
Susanne Scheel: Rebecca was someone Kathryn had been thinking about a lot. There were moments in each of her previous performances when she was at her most human in some very otherworldly films, and she always manages to ground them in such a beautiful way. We wanted the whole performance to be that. That side of her that you see moments of in other things. She said in some interviews that this is the most real person she’s ever played. I know I’m incredibly biased, but I think it’s one of her most gorgeous performances, if not the most gorgeous. We had some major directors reaching out to Kathryn about Rebecca being the best we’ve ever seen her in this movie. She broke your heart, but then she also had incredible strength. That person in real life would know more than almost anyone in this scenario.
But as we see, their job is to pass on information; their job isn’t even necessarily to interpret or comment. Jason Clarke’s character says that at one point, We’re not guessing. Here we are getting information. And we’re passing it up the chain. Only once you get to Tracy Letts as General Brady are they allowed to have some level of interpretation or comment, which she only does once the President clearly says, “What do I do here, guys?” That part really floored me. The amount of intelligence and information that these people have, but they just pass the information up the chain.
The Contending: It can be dangerous to cast well-known actors in small roles. It’s something that Kathryn and Michael Mann excel at. I think Kaitlyn Dever has one scene, but that’s Kaitlyn Dever, and you immediately recognize her. Is it fraught for you at all to say, we’re going to put recognizable faces in our film for small roles, and trust them not to go too broad with their performance? Because actors do have a desire to make an impact, but what’s necessary in this film is playing it straight.
Susanne Scheel: The way Kathryn responds to actors, we don’t worry about them going too broad. Kathryn gets the most grounded performances you’ve seen from most of these folks. You know the old line that there are “no small parts”? That’s what we are doing here. Even Kaitlyn’s moment with Jared on the phone, her dad being the Secretary of State. That moment is brought up to me almost more than any other moment. Him standing at the window looking out, and the quiver of the muscle in his cheek. What we quickly recognized is that each of these moments, particularly the ones that show the characters’ humanity, which I thought Noah’s script and Kathryn’s direction did so beautifully, is that you get to see a little bit of humanity in each of them.
They perform these incredibly important roles, but then they’re humans at the end of the day. That scene with Kaitlyn and Jared was so important to us. We had to have someone with real great talent, even a little recognizable, so she carries the weight and the gravitas we need her to. Same with Greta Lee. We needed someone so solid and so good in those moments. Same with Moses Ingram, playing higher-up at FEMA and handling those calls. That was the process behind it. We needed these credible people who, even if we see them for a short time, do exactly what we need them to do. And the weight and the force of the moment is on display.
The Contending: You worked with Greta on Past Lives. She’s tremendous in that film. I can imagine it was easy to want to work with her again.
Susanne Scheel: She is terrific. I went to the premiere of Past Lives at Sundance, and when it went dark, the credits started, you just heard a sniffle, and this is at Sundance, right? These are industry people. It’s hard to get that kind of reaction out of us. We just see so many movies. I was sobbing, and I knew what was coming. (Laughs). I got to know Greta a bit through Past Lives. She’s spoken about this in interviews; she has family members who still live in North Korea. The role was written as a North Korean expert, but that person does not have to be Korean-American. Anyone can be an expert if they’re well-read and well-researched. That was a natural fit for her, and knowing what we knew about Greta, that she’s this fantastic actress. Let’s try to get her, and if she says no, we can branch out and think of other people we feel could be credible in that role. But she said yes. So we didn’t have to go into that next step. Both her background and her ability were the perfect combo for that role.
The Contending: Gabriel Basso may not be as well-known as some of the other actors who are in the film. He’s excellent as the Deputy National Security Advisor. What made him stand out to you?
Susanne Scheel: Both Kathryn and I had watched The Night Agent. Then Kathryn read something that clued her in that he has a military background. That immediately elevated him above most other actors because right there, the credibility is built in. She said What do you think? And I said we should meet him. It was the most unusual director/actor conversation I think I’ve ever been a part of, in that we just talked about life, and about his background. We said almost nothing about the character in the script. It was just really getting to know him and how he approaches things. It was all Kathryn needed to see. He just is the part in a lot of ways. She loved the idea of applying his thought process, his background to the part. We didn’t really see anyone else for it. We talked about some other names, but once we met Gabe, it just felt so authentic. And then the other actor, Malachi Beasley, who sits next to Rebecca the whole time, also spent six years in the military, and he’s also a tremendous, Yale-trained actor.
There are multiple components to each of them that resulted in offering them the parts, but the military background was a huge draw for Kathryn. She said, they hold themselves in a certain way. Their cadence, their speech patterns, it’s all so specific, and like we can’t teach everyone how to do that. Having some actors that just naturally have it is a huge plus. Most of our featured background players were also real military. Kathryn’s done a few commercials for Veterans Affairs and Veterans Advocacy. In partnership with the military, we hired hundreds of real military people who either had an interest in acting or had an acting background. Some were in reserves, some were still active and took time off to be in the film. It was very important to Kathryn that we fill the rooms of STRATCOM and the White House Situation Room with real people.
The Contending: You mentioned Jared before. In a movie where so much is at stake, the most gasp-inducing moment is created when Jared’s character goes on a walk. I’ll leave it at that in terms of description. There is something about Jared’s face that just makes you believe that this guy, who is so strong in so many respects, could hit a point where he would make a decision that you might not think a man in that position would make.
Susanne Scheel: When we were talking about who should play that role, we found there to be only a handful of actors with that presence. We knew they’d be credible as a Secretary of State. But then, because of how the storyline tracks, we said, “Who’s going to break your heart?” Who in that moment is going to create the gasp response? I remember sitting on a panel with Kirk Baxter, our editor, and he said, “When I saw the shot of Jared by the window, where his cheek muscle quivers, that was one of the best gifts I’ve ever been handed as an editor.”
That’s Jared. It’s just those moments, and he’s so connected and so in it. That ultimately is why we decided to go to him. We believed he would connect emotionally so quickly. He didn’t have a lot of on-screen time; it’s such a big ensemble, but the audience needed to feel his anxiety, feel his stress, feel his grief, all those things happening at once.
The Contending: This film is about people being very professional under impossible circumstances. The character who maintains his professionalism to the utmost is Tracy Letts. When you talk about gravitas, that is something he brings to this role, and it doesn’t seem like he’s trying, which is the best kind of gravitas.
Susanne Scheel: He’s so well-known in our industry, but the average moviegoer might not know him as well. My husband saw the film, and he asked me, “Is that the guy sitting in STRATCOM right now?” Tracy has said, I probably would’ve made very different decisions than my character did. It’s not even like the role was close to him. He’s a Pulitzer Prize-winning writer. He’s very different from General Bradley. When I’ve heard him speak about his preparation, he had two guys flanking him on screen, one a four-star general, and the other a three-star general. At any point, he could turn to them and say, “What would I do? What order would I give?” He had a lot of assistance in that way, but he absorbed all of the knowledge he was given and just lived it and did it so beautifully and authentically. It’s one of my favorite performances of his.
The Contending: Jason Clarke worked with Kathryn on Zero Dark Thirty, which is one of the best and most misunderstood films of this century, but that’s another conversation.
Susanne Scheel: I agree.
The Contending: Was Kathryn thinking of bringing Jason back immediately for that part?
Susanne Scheel: We definitely checked his availability early on, and he was professionally available, but then he told us, I’m taking the summer off. Then, when we got very close to needing that role cast, we had over 113 roles to cast, and that was one of the last pieces of the puzzle. It felt tricky to place. Who could that be? His casting came from that. We had thought it would be him, but then he respectfully declined. We talked about some different names, but he just kept sticking with us. As a last resort, Greg Shapiro, our producer, called him and said, “Kathryn would love you to do this. We need you for five, six days. We’ve trimmed the part down. We feel like we could get you in and out in definitely under two weeks. Is there any way you’d consider this?” And he said if Kathryn really wants me to be there. Let me think about it. Let me talk to my family.
He calls Greg back. He said, So, I wasn’t fully honest with you. I’m in Paris. I have a horrible stomach flu. I am really not feeling well. And Greg says, So could you get on a plane in 36 hours and be here? And Jason said yes. The scene when Gabe’s on the phone with both the Russian ambassador and then with the President, Jason just threw himself into that scene. It was so important. He was so focused. None of that was scripted. He was just scripted as being in the room. It was the most important scene that his character was involved in. He recognized that because he is a brilliant actor. Even though he did not have one line of dialogue, it is a masterclass for all actors, the professionalism and the level he brings. It’s just unbelievable.
The Contending: A House of Dynamite is one of the great no-nonsense films. It’s like 12 Angry Men in that way. There’s no room for fat. How does that play into your thoughts on casting?
Susanne Scheel: It was a delight. My main job for each character was to determine whether they are credible in the position they hold. And then do they know how to be incredibly human? In a very natural, grounded way. They can’t tip it, it can’t feel heavy-handed, it can’t be overdone. It really changed the way I approach some, or even all of the films I’m involved with. Now that you see that level of groundedness and realism, you want to see it everywhere. I have found that, as I go through auditions for other films, this works everywhere. As long as I know they can get to that level of realism, they’re good. The piece takes shape from there.
But I do draw back to that idea of telling a credible story, regardless of what the topic is. You should want it to be so credible that they almost all feel like documentaries, even if you’re just putting a camera on a family having dinner. It should feel as real as it possibly can. It was nine months of seeing actors in person, which was such a gift. In this day and age, you just don’t get to do that as a casting director anymore. Now I fight for it on every project. Look at what we did. This is what you can accomplish. I know from the bottom of my gut and soul that we could not have cast this in this way had I not been allowed to be in person with every single actor. I know that.
