‘Fallout:’ Walton Goggins On The Ghoul’s Character Growth in Season Two

The Contending sits down with Emmy-nominated Fallout star Walton Goggins to discuss his growth in season two.

Walton Goggins delved deeper than ever this season in Amazon Prime’s Fallout as Cooper Howard. He explores the character trying to do the right thing as the amoral Ghoul. The pain Cooper goes through this season was as tough for us to watch as it was for Goggins to access. Plus, the duality of his two roles informing each other and changing him as the season progresses even surprised him. It was a masterful performance, and he is so thankful for those who helped him make it possible.

The Contending: You had many intense scenes this season. But the scene that really stuck with me is the whole sequence of meeting Mr. House officially where the scene escalates into House shouting, leading to Cooper’s complete breakdown of drinking and riding that mechanical nuclear bomb. What was it like to get through that whole sequence?

Walton Goggins: It was a lot, brother. I knew that this meeting was coming and Justin is a dear friend of mine. We’d never worked together before, but I respect him and admire him so much as an artist, and we had the opportunity earlier to do the bathroom encounter. But that was just kind of snuck in there. It was just a taste of where this could go. So knowing that this was coming, knowing that this was the moment where the rug was going to be pulled out from underneath Cooper. Him going in thinking that I know everything about this guy, about this world, about this bullshit. Only to realize that the world outside of that elevator was very different than what he thought getting onto that elevator.

Justin and I talked about it with Liz (Friedlander), our director, for I’m gonna say, two hours before we started working on it. Not anticipating where that conversation between Cooper and House would go, just getting a framework for it, finding it. Getting to Cooper leaving there so fucking…confused, knowing that he’s confused, walking up those stairs, and House losing his fucking mind because there’s one thing he doesn’t know. So Cooper is the person who knows nothing, and then Mr. House, a person who knows everything but the answer to one question he needs to know.

And then the process of getting off that elevator and drinking, and that walk to that mechanical nuclear bomb. I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I didn’t remember it, but it was such a blur. It’s such a shitty place to feel that out of control and the need to just medicate, not even to process, but get away from processing. That whole segment, it took us another day. Fourteen hours, fifteen hours, just to get that going down the elevator, getting off the elevator, taking that series of drinks, walking down those stairs, walking through that bar. With all of these players that had been there, with the wonderful production design, and all those extras. And then getting on that mechanical bull, and the visual of riding a fucking nuclear bomb to infinity, to his own self-destruction and the destruction of the world. It couldn’t have been written more or filmed more poetically. I suppose my participation is up to interpretation. But it was a lot, man, and I can’t believe you brought up that entire sequence, because it is probably my favorite thing about the show.

The Contending: On a less intense note, I love Cooper’s talks with Congressman Welsh, because it’s probably one of the few people he talks to who he feels is a completely decent human being in this world. Everyone else seems like they are lying to him or forcing him into making morally questionable choices. I’m curious how you and Martha Kelly were able to plan that out.

Walton Goggins: Graham and Geneva are both such great writers but Graham really took a specific interest in getting this right. And Martha Kelly is such a wonderful comedian, and this was a bit outside of her wheelhouse, which she was intimidated by, but also excited.

So the conversations these two have where the world that I thought existed no longer exists, and now I have a piece of technology to rewrite this world to create a path forward. And she has the opportunity to take this technology to the powers that be, and make that change, not realizing that she’s also part of the fucking process that has been put into place.

But the building up of that connection, and finding the nuances in that conversation, and it changed over time. Can I trust you? Is it too conspiratorial? Too much hope? Is there actually a way we’re gonna make it out of this? We had the time of our lives creating all that.

The Contending: We now know so much more about Cooper’s relationship with his wife. Where we had left her in Season 1, we thought she was this cold-hearted, evil person. And now we know that she was brought along reluctantly just as much as Cooper was. Did that change how you played the Ghoul this season, with this new information, or give you new insight into him?

Walton Goggins: On some level Cooper Howard informs the Ghoul. How did a man like Cooper Howard, who has an eternally optimistic point of view, literally become the Ghoul with an extremely pessimistic worldview? But even with that dark worldview, the possibility of reconnecting with his wife and his daughter drives him. Wanting to know if they’re still alive, you know, as much as anything else. And then finding that information out and cross-cutting that, both internally and externally, with where they landed in their relationship. When he got her truth, and what’s really kind of going on, they became one again in their goals and aspirations.

The anticipation of reconnecting with this person who has been gone for centuries, he has a certain amount of anxiety, because of the way he looks now. I shudder to think what that reunion would be like but, I’ve imagined it, many, many times, but I don’t know, we’ll see.

The Contending: The Ghoul went through some changes this season. As the Ghoul and Lucy travelled together they affected each other. Him helping her to be less naive, and her helping him to open up a little bit more to the world. What was that like to do across the whole season?

Walton Goggins: First and foremost I just love Ella so much, she’s such a wonderful actor. So with these two characters spending that much time together they will inevitably rub off onto each other. But the thing that I really thought about going into this is that the Ghoul has never had more than a ten minute conversation with anyone in decades. He certainly hasn’t traveled with anyone in 175 years. And here he is on this road trip with someone that he needs, that he can’t get away from. And she also needs him. So they’re inextricably tied together on this journey, because of where they’re headed. But the thing that I didn’t anticipate, (I try not to anticipate anything with this show), was how fond they would become of each other without words and how comfortable you get. You might first think that it’s Stockholm Syndrome, but then it becomes something very different. They fell into a groove where they became more comfortable with each other, and that’s very, very, very hard to do.

If you’d have asked me in Season 1 if that would ever happen, I would say, of course not, no, no way. But it did, and the thing that was so surprising about the relationship was where they landed. That scene in the hotel room when she finds out that he had to give her up, and in that moment her hurt and pain was real, and the Ghoul felt pain, and shame. This is a guy who will fucking kill anyone, right? But to feel that he has gone against a moral code that he no longer has, but had once, and the shame and regret that he feels in that moment. My favorite line in that whole sequence was, “family’s a fucked up thing.” It had so many levels to it.

Everybody in this show is so wonderful, the actors have given such great work this season. And I feel that I’ve been given the opportunity, at least with the story this year in Fallout, to have that times two because Cooper and the Ghoul are the same person and different people. I can’t believe I’m sitting here talking to you about how rich it really was.